To the cradle Catholics or anyone interested in current affairs: Any word of Pope Benedict's edict 'allowing' churches to perform the latin mass in Verdun or Canada in general? It would be nice if my church would go back to the traditional mass which was for me very beautiful. Every Sunday we could have one mass in latin and the other four in the vernacular. I personally believe the one mass in latin would be we attended.
Second Avenue
49 comments:
We have one Catholic church here in Calgary that has traditional Latin Mass - it is advertized on the religion page every Saturday.
Which church is that Shirley. I'll be visiting my son's little family in Calgary sometime this year, and it would be super to experience the latin service again.
bill
Bill, I doubt that many Churches will go to the Latin Mass. The switch was made in 1962 so only people over 50 would be familiar with it. Only priests over 60 would have any experience in the celebration of the Liturgy. Also it is divisive move. When the Anglican community moved to the language of the new prayer book it divided us badly and 55 Churches across Canada broke away and formed the Anglican Catholic Church. I think in the case of R.C., the young would want to stay with what they know and the older worshippers would yearn for the words they loved and cherished. It will be interesting to see how it works. Incidentally, how did a good R.C. like you end up at Verdun High? Ed
I was raised by a English Protestant mother and an Irish Catholic father. My father was in Europe for the entire duration of WW2. By the time he returned to Verdun, I was baptized a protestant and thus Bannantyne/Verdun High. I have always felt closer to catholicism, and when my mom passed away I converted. Why my surname is Cooper (English), is a long story. Look on my V.C. photo album at the family burial obelisk; its all there.
Bill
Bill (SeconDave) you got to live out ,.my favourite Irish Rover Song .about that awful colour problem of the "Orange & the Green" Oh, it is the biggest mix-up that you have ever seen.
My father, he was Orange and me mother, she was green. My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he.
My mother was a Catholic girl, from county Cork was she.
They were married in two churches, lived happily enough,
Until the day that I was born and things got rather tough. Baptized by Father Riley, I was rushed away by car,
To be made a little Orangeman, my father's shining star.
I was christened "David Anthony," but still, inspite of that,
To me father, I was William, while my mother called me Pat. With Mother every Sunday, to Mass I'd proudly stroll.
Then after that, the Orange lodge would try to save my soul.
For both sides tried to claim me, but i was smart because
I'd play the flute or play the harp, depending where I was. Now when I'd sing those rebel songs, much to me mother's joy,
Me father would jump up and say, "Look here would you me boy.
That's quite enough of that lot", he'd then toss me a coin
And he'd have me sing the Orange Flute or the Heros of The Boyne One day me Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight. My parents never could agree about my type of school.
My learning was all done at home, that's why I'm such a fool.
They've both passed on, God rest 'em, but left me caught between
That awful color problem of the Orange and the Green. ........................................................Cheers, HF&RV ps: I was in the year of the last time they taught Latin in school,... always thought it was useless,......Until years later visitng Central America and found that ,with a little thought ,.I could understand some of the signs,.and the language,..just from recalling some of those long ago studied LAtin classes................................So everything you do in life ,is Good ,.if you allow it to help you.......................... pst: don't tell anyone but I still didn't like Church,.......but the Collection Money was enjoyable............hahahahaha
Les that's so appropriate and a keeper. Attached is a confirmation photo taken a minute after the rite. It was a long time coming and I was home at last.
Thank you God.
The churches which decided to provide a latin mass will have the missal written in latin alongside the vernacular. Anyone can follow with no problems. Most people in today's western world are secular it seems, but to the devoted catholic it's very important.
The vernacular masses came about during the anti establishment movement of the 60s. The idea was to provide a mass which was appealing to the young and increase the declining congregations. They brought in the guitars, drums etc. They wanted to make it hip, and I believe this was an honest mistake. The pope has given permission to change if the particular parish wishes it. Democracy. Anyway one mass in latin and the rest in the vernacular is a logical way to go.
Bill
"Tentada via est" The way must be tried...
Virgil urging us not to give up easily, but to explore any method that shows promise
St. Anthony Pastor: Rev. Eulogio S. Estaris
Associate Pastor (Latin Mass): Father Christopher Blust, FSSP
Priest in Residence: Fr. John Petravicius
Administration/Pastoral Associates: Mrs. Brenda Ann Taylor, Mrs. Angela Alexandre
Parish Receptionist: Mrs. Jeannette Bird
Phone: (403) 252-1137
Fax: (403) 255-7796
Address: 5340-4 Street SW, Calgary • T2V 0Z5
Sacrament of Reconciliation:
Saturday 4 :15 p.m., 7 :00 p.m. - 8 :00 p.m. w/ Fr. Blust, FSSP
Before daily Latin Mass
Weekend Masses:
Saturday 5:00 p.m., Sunday 9:00 a.m., 10:30 a.m.
Latin Masses:
Mon., 7:45 a.m., Tue/Wed 11:45 a.m., Thu/Fri. 7:00 p.m., Saturday 9:00 a.m.
Sun. 7:15 a.m. and High Mass at 12:00 p.m.
Shirley that was nice of you to go through the trouble of scanning that church ad. Thank you.
Bill
Several people have asked me if I think the Romans Catholics should concern themselves with Latin Masses. Having a close relationship with two R.C. churches, (one of which is St.Willibrords, I stll work there) I've been involved in several discussions on the subject. As a Church Warden whose duty is to keep the Church afloat financially, the first question I ask them is, How often do you attend your Church? and the second is How much do you give? Today it is the ones who come every week and give their donations that keep the Church afloat. In the discussions, I met people who said "if they did so and so I would attend more often." It soon became clear these were people who attended Church sporadically and gave sparingly. I would suggest to those who ask for Latin Masses ask if your Church can afford it. You will have to publish new pamphlets with the order of service in two languages, perhaps hire a Priest that knows the Liturgy. Will those who are against it (and there will be some) walk out in anger at a cost of parishioners and donations. I know the importance of this first hand. The older parishioners, many of whom are on pension give one hundred per month. The younger folk with children often often can only put five dollars on the plate but filling the pews is as important to me as the money. Last month I had to solicit extra donations to raise a few hundred dollars to send a rep to the national Synod. The plumber that charged 300 dollars to clear the drains forced me to throw in my GST rebate to help cover it. My point is; before you ask anything that might make it more difficult for struggling Parishes today, check wether they can handle it. Remember, if you're a serious Christian you should know that worship is between you and God and all the embellishments in the world change nothing. Please, think, then act. Ed
Ed I understand your concerns in regard to the financial repercussions in a implementing latin mass on the unprepared. If a priest who has graduated from a seminary is not familiar with the latin mass there is something terribly wrong with the school in my humble opinion.
Worship is between the believer and his/her connection to his/her Higher Power. The key word is 'Connection'. Mass helps me to maintain a connection.
Anyway I am tired of the the guitars and tambourines which I call catholicism decafe. I've heard it said the latin mass is the authentic medicine, and the 'hippy 1960s' mass is the placebo. Believe me Ed, a conscious connection is hard enough, even with daily mass. Just a thought.
Bill
Hi Ed! As a practicing Roman Catholic, I don't think I and the millions of Roman Catholics around the world will have any choice in the matter if the Pope decides that the Mass will be said in Latin...... Hiring priests?.....Men are simply not entering the priesthood. We have a drastic shortage of priests here in Canada. I cannot speak for other parts of the world. We have a big problem here, many parishes have been closed and where I live 3 parishes have amalgamated and we are now called The Holy Trinity. My parish priest is from India and I have a hard time understanding him say the Mass in English, never mind Latin! When it comes to paying for changes, restoration of Church property and other expenditures the cost is passed on to the parishoners. Right now my parish has asked us all here to pledge so much a year for 5 years to help pay for repairs and a new roof. This of course is over and above the 10% ( tithe ) that we are expected to drop into the collection plate every week. What concerns me is Pope Benedict the XV1 seems intent on turning back the clock and all the gains the Church has made will be lost. He has made several statements that has me baffled...He used a quote which associated Islam with violence, and he stated that all Christian denominations apart from Catholicism were wounded and not full churches of Jesus Christ. People who say if they did so and so I would attend more often are simply making an excuse for not going, period. All the changes in the world wont make people go to church if they don't have the inclination to go in the first place. It will be interesting to see how this turns out...and I am not against the Mass being said in Latin, nor am I for it. For the first 12 years or so of my life the Mass was in Latin...but once it was said in English, I felt like I was truly participating in the ritual of the Blessed Sacrement.
The parish I belong to here in Calgary has lots of seniors lots of Univ of Calgary students lots of young families and lots of ethnic - the Sunday collection is somewhere between $13K and $15k a week and all the masses are very well attended year round to over capacity crowds at Christmas and Easter and Palm Sunday. We did a huge renovation and have raised $3million so far to pay for it - I think the church mortgage and expenses are $19k a month. When I go to Montreal we attend mass and I want to cry - in Magog there is one English Sunday mass in a side room at 8 a.m. - we opt to attend mass at St Benoit du lac Abbey in french and georgian chant with all the brothers some in walkers singing.
Meant to add that for the last 5 years maybe 6 our assistant pastors have all been young - like just out of seminary - all from Goa and all with hispanic sounding names but all East Indian - our former pastor was Phillipino - this one is Canadian and about 50 years of age maybe 45 and speaks so fast he is as hard to understand as the assistant Pastor - the previous assistant was really into music and cars and soccer and hockey and was a boon to the youth movement in our parish - he was totally cool but my husband preferred the old Filipino pastor - he had keen sense of humour. We have a hispanic mass at 12:30 on Sunday and the music is BEAUTIFUL - 7:30 mass on Sunday has an Irish Cantor and his music and Irish lilt and voice are beyond words - he plays the guitar - there are 2 guitars 2 violins - drums and piano at 730. Music really makes the liturgy moving sometimes ok often I am moved to tears just listening to the music.
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The best musical service I have ever experienced was at my mother's Episcopalian Cathedral (St. Andrews in Honolulu). The choir was inspiring in addition to the incredible soloist -- knock your socks off music. Beautiful service altogether, but didn't quite do it for me spiritually although my dear mom loved it of course. Another great entertaining service was at the Unity Church (non-denominational) at Diamond Head where they have professional musicians and singers come from the hotels in Waikiki to play. They also spend a small fortune on flowers for the altar. Again, 'very' nice but not my cup of tea.
What really set my humble heart aflame was a Latin mass I attended in the 80s at an ancient church in Palermo Sicily. The priest sang the mass in operatic Latin. His voice reverberated off the high ceilings. Incredible!
My recently renovated church St. John's, in the small town of Mililani, has a young band consisting of a keyboard, drums, guitar and three or four singers. They do their very best, but God bless them they are occasionally off key, and the drum is distracting. I usually go 8 AM on the week days -- less music, and then ride up the mountain to the Benedictine Monastery for Sunday mass. Few in attendance usually maybe 10 or 12 people. One of the Sisters plays a guitar and another plays an instrument that looks like a small steel guitar. They are very good.
I would like to be involved in a solem mass. Not for everyone.
Bill
Bill
thanks ed bro. carolyn bennett i remember george o brien at st thomas more. he was there for years.
I have an old Missal the Mirian missal from First year high school - it is latin on one side and english on the other with a dainty fine red line down the center of the page all gold leaf - the altar boys from age 10 or 12 used to serve the mass - they learned the latin responses so regardless of whether the priests learn the latin mass or not while they are studying for the priesthood they surely are smarter than the very young altar boys from the late 50's early 60's who grew up in the west end and served either at St Ann's or St. Anthony's or St. Thomas Aquinas now all gone except for a small mission that serves as St Anthony's parish off St Antoine near Fulford in what if my memory serves me used to be a cough medicine pharmaceutical place in the 50's. Have not been along St Antoine to determine if St Thomas Aquinas church has also been torn down. I also remember that we went into what we called the dialogue mass and the nuns drilled us so that we too learned the responses that were once given by the altar boys and were then given by the congregation before we switched over to English. I still miss the Latin mass and if we didnt live waaay north of St Anthony's parish here in Calgary I would be happy to do nothing but Latin Mass. Really I dont see a problem - I look around me at Mass and see teenagers and adults not participating and the mass is in English and forget singing they dont sing either they are just there so I really dont see a problem for them whether the mass is in Latin/English or Chinese. I am sure that some of the masses at our parish would still be English we have 5 pm Saturday 8 am Sunday and then 10:30, 12:30 AND 7:30 PM 12:30 the music at 12:30 MASS is Hispanic and there are about 10 in that choir along with musicians one gentleman is a beautifuol tenor that gives you shivers - we have a different group in the choir and musicians for each mass.
Bill, If the Churches had more devotees like you they'd be well off today. You're right on. We have always used the organ which as well as being traditional has the appropiate tones for choir, soloist or backing up the congregation. Back in the late eighties St.Willibrord had a guitarist. It didn't fit in with the choir. When the choir softened the guitar could still be heard clanging away which spoiled the expression being put into the music by the small but well trained choir they had at that time. I still work at St.Willi's once a month to keep in touch with the many friends I have there.I have no idea what they do now as I am here at my own organ for the last 952 Sundays but Father Joe keeps old St.Willi's rompin' and I'm sure he would do a Latin Mass if were asked to. Even though he became a Priest late in life he would remember it from attending in his boyhood. You're right on when you say worship is between the person and God. I was recently asked by a lesbian couple that I had helped get a home and out of debt, "How can you claim to love us when you are against us being married in your Church? Are you saying we're wrong to be in love?" I told them that I'm against marriage in the Church because the Canons say it's wrong but I love them as I do any of my friends. Right and wrong are not for me to judge, they and only they must answer for what they do. I suggested they stay close to the Church which is still the best way to stay close to our Lord. Ed
(I was recently asked by a lesbian couple that I had helped get a home and out of debt, "How can you claim to love us when you are against us being married in your Church? Are you saying we're wrong to be in love?")
Tough questions indeed, and I have no answers except to continue to honoring the traditions of the church -- as best I can that is.
Maybe western societies will 'fully' accept gay couples in the distant future, I don't know of course, but the catholic church will probably be the last to do so if ever. 100 years ago this choice was a prison sentence in Britain, and in many eastern societies today, homosexuality is still a death sentence. Hard to comprehend that mind set.
Personally if the church would remove premarital sex as a sin from the canon I'd confused but I wouldn't complain I don't think. I would suggest to the couple to let that dream go; Catholic gay marriage will never happen in their lifetime, and nurturing that resentment will continue to be a source of unhappiness. Trust in God. We are all sinners no doubt. I forget the appropriate biblical quote. Anyway
Peace and Love,
Bill
Gay couples are our brothers and sisters and any real Church should accept them and do what they can to promote their Christian happiness, but marrying them is something else. If the Church claims to be teaching from the Bible they have no choice but to refuse to marry. Incidentally, some of you may have heard of Canon Horace Baugh of the Anglican Community. He died this morning at 91. He was famous for blessing the animals for almost fifty years. At an outdoor ceremony on the mountain, people would bring their pets by the thousand. Police brought their horses to be blessed. The Churches he Pastored were in the Laurentians.
Shirley, Who is in charge of the music? Should it be the organist or the Priest? This has an argument in Catholic Churches as long as I can remember. Becuase Catholics celebrate Saints days and other specials, the Priest prefers hymns refering to that particuler Sunday. The organist is more interested in Hymns that are singable and I can assure that some of our old Hymns are real clunkers. My own daughter-in-law won't come to our Church because she wants her children to learn Hymns that thay can sing to their children in the nursery. She's right. The Priests were angry when I changed Hymns they had decreed. I asked them, "What do you see during the Mass (our Priests still face the Altar)?" Their answer was, "The Cross" I said, " What I see from the organ loft are empty pews and as People's Warden it's my job to try to fill them." I agreed to play two Hymns of the day and the other two my choosing. The reason I bring this up is because you mention people not singing. Worship is Prayer and Praise. Both equally important. I think encouraging singing is very essential. I use a lot of the Evangelistic stuff and the singing is great. Many have told me how much they enjoy it. Ed
Actually we have a comittee for liturgical music - head of the committee was a congregation of Notre Dame nun from St. Anthony's Academy in West End Montreal - how she ended up here at St. Luke's Parish in Calgary I dont know - she retired last year - the pastor is a member of the committee. The music mostly is very moving - we have 2 hymns at communion because of the sheer number of people at each mass - Kyrie/ Alleluia/Gloria/Responsorial Psalm/Lamb of God are all sung as well as the Our Father rounded out by Entrance Hymn Communion Hymns and Recessional Hymn - there are 10 members of the choir besides the choir leader, pianist &musicians 2 violins 2 guitars and drums not sure about the 8:30 MASS but that generally is how it is at 10:30 12:30 7:30 on Sunday and 5 pm on Saturday. Church seats 750+ here is the website http://www.stlukeschurch.ca/ have a look around
Shirley, I love singing the Mass: i.e. Apart from the HYmns we sing the Kyrie/The gloria in Excelcis/The Gospel/The Credo/The Responses/The Sanctus/Benedictus/Agnus Dei and Threefold Amen. This beautiful music has been the same for thousands of years and when I play it it takes me back to my boyhood in the Choir. "Faith of out Fathers," sys it all. Ed
This thread is, of course, decidedly Catholic, but as a Protestant who grew up in Verdun and who watched the various Catholic parades (maybe processions is a more appropriate word?), I have to wonder why the Vatican with it's millions (or more) of dollars, cannot help local struggling parishes throughout the world. It seems to me (and I am not educated in Catholicism at all, so please forgive my ignorance) that the "Church" has it's collective hand out for everything but doesn't really ever seem to give anything back to the communities. Does the money collected in the local churches stay local, or does it (or a percentage) get sent to the Vatican? I attended the wedding of a friend at Mary Queen of the World cathedral in Montreal years ago, and was shocked to hear that the family had to pay much more money for the couple to be married at the front altar! If they got married in a different part of the cathedral it would cost less. I have heard that it costs money to have babies baptized. Why? Jesus did not charge for His services while here on earth, and He lived a very simple life without adornment. I am always quite amazed at the interior of the cathedrals I have been in, i.e. Notre Dame, Mary Queen of the World, St. Joseph's Oratory in Montreal, and wonder at the cost of the original building and the current maintenance needed to keep these buildings beautiful today. I think it is a sin that children are hungry, unclothed, lack proper sanitation, have little or no education in all parts of the world, and yet the Catholic Church keeps asking for money when it already has amassed a great fortune by anyone's standards! Maybe when the Vatican starts to "walk the talk" and lead by example, the pews will be filled with those who truly desire to worship the Lord... Just my two "Protestant" cents worth.
Hi Country Girl, Growing up in Verdun,one never knew for sure if they were Protestantor or Catholic. If you were not Roman Catholic you were sent to Protestant schools. This included Anglicans who are as Catholic as the Pope but not Roman. The Roman Church controlled educationin those days and if you were not RC you were Prot. If you were Jewish or Muslim, you were Prot. Ed
back then, quebec controlled, the education system also, that many don't know about?? as a little verduner, myself and my younger brother, because are parents were immigrants. my mom tried very hard to get us two into french school, forget it back then. living on woodland, mrs boyce, helped my mom to find a school for us st thomas moore, we as polish catholics were allowed. today quebec made laws to go to french school, back then no way
Quebec might have controlled the education system but The Church controlled Quebec Ed
Ed...Hi how are you?....the Catholic Church in Quebec definitely controlled the French School system and the English Catholic school system........that is how it was until I graduated in 1964. Dianne
Try Growing out of it..................instead of always blaming another culture or language,...............Geez ,....many of us lived and breathed ,amongst those God Forsaken 'others'...............and Guess what ,..............Normal People with a 'Quest' for Knowledge,......seem to be able to travel anywhere & all over the world...........................ABD GUESS WHAT.,......... ...........................We Get Along............... Grow Up & Take Your Head out if Your Rear: ......................or You could try to Qualify as 'Copy & Poster NoMinds' ...........................................................hahahahahhaha WAKE UP & SMELL THE COUCH BURNING HF&RV
back then as a little verduner, not knowing english nor french i still had friends to play with on the streets, lanes, boardwalk school at first was a little hard, later i had freinds in that part of verdun. back then delivering gorceries with your wagon, you learn the skill meeting a mom and asking her to take her order, you take special care talking to her regardless of language, religion, culture, you want her to remember you for the next time. when you are done, you get 25 cents for the delivery charge, then get a 10 or 25 cent tip. knowing you got a future customer on your list for next saturday delivery. verdun was the best for me and always will be. today my customer list is endless, at times a young contractor asks me how do i get good customers. i replie, go get the tim hortons and i'll tell you a story as a little verduner delivering gorceies and dealing with all kinds of people. later at the job site we had a good time listening and others told there experiences finding customers. at first they are a customer, later we become freinds verdun was a blessing of education
Yes the Church controlled everything in Quebec but I wish that we could go back to that time with what we know today - no more 17 kids for my granny (good Irish Catholic) no more 20 kids for the french neighbour down the street (good Fresh Catholic) I am greatful for every minute I spent in the Catholic School system - wish that my grandkids still hat a St Thomas More and VCHS to go to - they still live in Verdun but times have changed Metalman are you a builder? can you send me an email???
Country Girl the Catholic Church has missionaries in all parts of the world including very dangerous places. Here in Hawaii we had two saints (soon), who devoted their lives to live with and assist the lepers. Father Damien, Sister Maryanne and many other holy church missionaries. Father became infected himself and died with this deforming disease. Recall those nuns who were raped and murdered in civil war torn El Salvador? And Mother Teresa loving the humblest of humanity in India. These are only the publicized catholics. There are thousands of such heavenly priests and sisters right now risking their lives for God. If I can donate a few bucks to further their work so be it. Regarding the Vatican, who is living in luxury there? Priests sacrifice themselves by giving up a family life -- celibacy, and taking a vow of poverty, they own nothing even in the Vatican. Anyway if you really want to know where the money goes check this article out.
Bill
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1987/12/21/70001/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Damien
Country girl if I may respond to your questions - I too wish that the Vatican with all its wealth could help struggling parishes - it broke my heart when the expressway bulldozed through the west end along St Antoine and St Anthony's Church was no more because they had also bulldozed the houses right through to Atwater that was our parish no houses no catholics to come to church. But let me explain something - my late husband was Anglican and his funeral was from the Anglican Church - funeral at the Church cost $400 plus the undertaker - cremation - burial yada yadfa you all know what I mean ditto for a Wedding taking place there - here is what I learned and my background is Finance/Investing/Financial Consultant (yeah people paid for my advise) little girl from the Catholic system in the West end - which by the way was very much like Verdun where we later lived. If you get married in the Catholic/Anglican church yes you pay but that $$$ is like you gave the money to the Church in the collection plate and at the end of the year you get a receipt for same - ditto for the funeral. Now on the other hand you bring a minister/JP whatever to a hotel and have your wedding there you get diddley squat - ditto for the funeral at the undertakers - so if you want to get something back go through the church regardless of the denomination - cheapest is the call crematorium have them go to hospital to get the body instead of undertaker - have the cremation and arrange for Catholic Mass/ Anglican Funeral hey our church ladies even provide for the reception in a beautiful hall afterwards - yes they appreciate the donation but then again the church receipts you because you make your cheque payable to St........ Church and you are all witness to how I am going to go exactly like that. If you have a lunch at the country club after "the Funeral" at Collins/Ferrons yada yada it will cost you and cost you plenty waaaaaay more than the center altar at the Cathedral - been there and done that and I have the recipts to prove it - lol
shirley i'm been at it for over 30 years as a builder and carpenter, i would always give my advice, help, to any vc member.
ShirleyBH2..............................that was great...................hahahahaha and I have to admit those little ladies in the congregation, do make nice sandwhiches..........................and they do it out of the goodness of their hearts,,,,,,,,(I was impressed by this show of good nature).....and we had front row ,center (the big altar) and then the use of their reception/gathering hall,.at St________ ....................They did a good job ,.and this was for a funeral : YIKES.......... BTW: Do you know the Difference between ' Your Wedding & Your Funeral ..........At one of them You can Smell the Flowers. hahahahahha HF&RV
There are also thousands (more like Millions) of ordianry people who help others in places all over the world,each day,.Dangerous Places too,.... the Catholics DO NOT hold the Edge in this department,........ HF&RV
btw; ( I'm supposedly RC)..................whatever good that does.........hahaha I think it really means Recovering Catholic,...........rather than Roman I do however hold a certificate from a recognized church,....stating that I am an Ordained Minister,..........since 1980 ...........(there's Nothing you can't Buy)...............................hahahahahaha so 27 years & counting ,(what a good guy I am ,.....eh? well at least according to those credential;s)............. how's that go again 'Forgive me father ,for I have..........................................hahahahahaha see how well the brrainwashing worked I still Remember most of the words to the little creedo before confession........... hahahaha "It's been 40 plus years ,since my last confe.........................hahahahahaha Just having fun.................now wher'e those Lighting Bolts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,haven't seen those in a while....... YIKES,........ I'm scared now....hahahahaha
I'm guessing that just about all places of worship have a "minimum donation" schedule to hold services (marriage, baptism, funerals, memoirials) in their sanctuaries. The facilities' overhead costs should not be absorbed by the congregations, struggling or not.
Maggie, Baptisms should always be free. It's what Jesus ordered us to do. Weddings are optional. So often it is the ones who rarely attend and support that need the Church and yes they should pay. We have anarrangement with an undertaker to cremate the remains and bring the urn to the Church. We hold a fulll service all for under the $2500. allowed by the Feds. $150 for the Church and the rest is between the bereaved and the undertaker. Les, I don't know how you manage to see an argument in a simple discussion of facts. I think it you looking at the wrong end. Ed
Baptisms are free here but you must be a member of the church or go through RCIA. We were getting a lot of mothers going to RCIA and getting baptized so that their kids could go to a Catholic school - usually because the only school in their area was Catholic so kiddie would have to be bused - 85% of the time we never see them again, Made me very leery when the mom showed up with kids in tow ask where they live and sure enough one of the neighbourhoods with only Catholic school. One of the girls who worked for my husband conned me into sponsoring her into RCIA and her son into Rite of Christian Initiation for Children - he was 9 at the time. Funny 2 years before that when they lived near the university and he went to the Public School she had not expressed any interest in joining a church but no sooner had she moved into a newer area and rather than bus him she joined the church and they were both baptized. They are from communist country so no religious background and one other thing not once did I ever see her put anything in the collection plate. Because of the boom here in Calgary many new areas only have one school. I am sure if a parishioner died and his family could not afford the funeral that there would be no charge on the other hand no amount of money will get you a church wedding if you are not a member of the church - dont know where they stand on fallen catholics where the family want a proper funeral.
Shirley ,..................does that mean my plan to Have a Deathbed Conversion ,.is out./hahahahaha I think they have to take me anyway,.even if I did spend those dimes destined for the collection plate at StWillibrords' in the corner store.....................................Was that Wrong? hahahahah afterall I knew not what I did............................ HF&RV Irreverant Les_F
Bless me father for I have sinned - every time we spent the collection money in the Candy store or the Milk money there we knew it was wrong - never spent the collection but usually spent the milk money which I think was 5 or 7 cents - I was on the small side and the nuns had a certain number of bottles alloted to the class free and usually the skinny kids got free milk so I had candy and milk. I was to proud to have no collection money so never spent that - I always felt like every eye on the church would be looking at me - was that my conscience in fact I refused to go to Church if my father (Protestant) did not give me money for collection.
Hi ShirleyBH2,.....................Your Dad was a smart man............... .........i never worried about the eyes in the Church being on me ,.as ata very young age I figured there was really no sense going to the mass.......................hahahahahha but I did go to get the Church Bulletin,..to use as my proof to my Mother ,.that I had dutifully attended the brainwashing period every Sunday.........................hahahahahaha my mom's 87 now (soon anyway ) and she laughs at my escapades now......(Does that mean I'm saved).........................hahahahahahaha Have Fun & Remember Verdun
Shirley, Should we be Catholic or Prtestant? Let me tell you how my Mother figured it out. Mom was Roman Catholic, born and raised in Dublin. Dad was a Baptist who never went to Church but refused to have us kids raised R.C. My convinced Dad that Anglican was Protestant and he swallowed it so we were raised Anglican. Dad was happy we were going to Chuirch Mom was happy that we were going to take Communion. Ed
Ed - my father married my mother in the Catholic Church - before they married he signed a statement that any children would be brought up Catholic - end of story he promised. My paternal grandfather was a layminister guess in the Catholic Church they are called Deacons now. Really there is very subtle differences in the Anglican Eucharist some even make the sign of the cross. As for the question should we be Catholic or Anglican/Protestant for me that is like asking me do I want to be white or black - I am what I was born and I cant think why I would want to change that. Now here is something that I have been thinking for a while - I believe in my heart that it is just a matter of time until the Anglican church is reunited with the Catholic Church - and the Catholic church has ordained married anglican priests here in Calgary - not many. Funny thing my late husband always said that he listened to the church service on the radio and put his collection over the radio (big joke hahaha) BUT when he was terminal in the hospital with pneumonia brought on by his latest Radiation treatments and I called the Anglican Priest for him while he was being anointed his lips were moving in time with those of the priest reciting the Our Father - he died 24 hours or so later and I had the nurse ring for the Catholic Priest to bless him and give him absolution - just in case. Now he rarely went to Church and he had the option or rolling over and turning his back on the Anglican priest however his eyes never left his face and he prayed as well as he was physically able given his very terminal state.
Shirley, The last time our Bishop was here (Nov.06) He said they had been in Rome discussing the possibility of reuniting. Under Pope John Paul it was coming along, but I don't know if this holds now concerning the new Popes outlook on other Faiths. I must email our Bishop who is in Vancouver and ask how it's going. Ed
Shirley, Your husband's story reminds me of the old Hymn, "Faith of our Fathers. Holy Faith. We will be true to Thee till death." He may not have shown it, but it was always inside him and God knew that. Ed
Ed I haven't heard of this reuniting the Anglican and Catholic churches. This is an upheaval which may or may not destroy both. I cannot see the Archbishop of Canterbury submitting to the pope or visa-versa. I'd like to read something on this. If you are knowledgeable of some appropriate literature, lay it on me please.
In my humble mind, the jury is still out on priests marrying, which is against canon law apparently. If an already married man such as an Anglican priest converted to catholicism and became a Catholic priest, then he would be a perfectly acceptable exception. So how can this be? I think both churches should immediately get back to the teachings of Christ
. A portion of the prayer of St. Michael: "... (Jesus) thrust into hell the devil and all the evil spirits who roam the world for the ruin of souls." What better place for evil works than in the hierarchy of the church. The recent cover up scandals are an example of the ruination of souls. I love the Catholic church and I will defend it, but if I see 'evil' at work with the clergy I will protest vehemently.
What is a good Catholic? A good Catholic to a 'few' church elders, was someone who kept their mouth shut, their pocket books open. Paid, prayed and obeyed. Was docile, went to mass, obeyed all the commandments, went to confession on a regular basis. For the most part was ritualized, obedient, and quiet. But a good Catholic is not that at all. A good Catholic is a Catholic in the model of Jesus Christ, a revolutionary. Someone who is not afraid to get up and speak the truth. The only time Jesus got angry was in church.
... Father Tom Doyle.
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