Monday, January 24, 2011

Queen's Park 1899

I am still doing research on the Queen's Park that held the 1899 World Meet bicycle races. As strange as it may seem, no one knows exactly where the Queen's Park was situated including some local historians and the city of Verdun. I have been doing research on and off on the subject since I am a member of the SHGV but I have concentrated on the subject in the last couple of months and come to the conclusion that it was situated in the rectangle comprising Wellington, Rielle, Lower Lachine road (LaSalle Blvd) and Gordon as shown in my illustration. Several questions remain unanswered such as:

Where was the house of Ucal-Henri Dandurand situated on Lower Lachine Road. I have discovered that it burnt down on the 19th of October 1901. He was one of the owners and spark plug of the whole project.

When was the race track demolished. It was completed on the 17th of may 1988.

When was the stadium demolished. It seated between 8000 and 12000 people wich is considerable since Verdun had only a population of approximately 2000 people.

Where are the plans of the complex.

Is there a map of Verdun 1899 showing the velodrome.

Are there other photos that have not been publised.

Are there 8mm or 16mm films that where taken.

Hopefully these mysteries will be answered on the fascinating saga of the QUEEN'S PARK velodrome.

Guy

 

 

42 comments:

Ken McLaughlin said...

Keep up the research, Guy! I have become more than a little fascinated by 19th century Verdun, the main area of my focus is the duel that was fought, and Queen's park appears to be the site, in 1838. I would love to be able to connect the duel, the park, and the political and social aspects of Verdun in it's relationship to the rich and powerful of 19th century Montreal. I do suspect that there is a much more colourful history there than any of us could imagine, but like many things that might fall under "gentlemen's agreements" in the 19th century, there may not be anything out there of much substance.

Ken McLaughlin

Les F said...

Guy I wonder if this business operation would have had to have a 'business license' of some kind. Perhaps a search at Verdun City Hall archives for business,might turn up something or provide some other clues to Velodrome's History ? Just a thought...............Cheers !! HF&RV

Guy Billard said...

Les,
The city of Verdun has practically nothing on the subject for that period. As a matter of fact, I visited the city of Verdun a couple of years ago and was surprised to discover the little information in their archives from that period. I am going tomorrow to the city of Verdun and I will bring a binder with my discoveries.
Guy

Les F said...

Ok Guy, here is a link to the announcement of what they call the World Bicyle Meet, from August 7-August 12 . They list it as Montreal, however in those days I'm sure everything was called Montreal...
This link is from the Montreal Gazette dated August 7th,1899, if you have the time & patience to scroll through the whole paper & the many others available ,you may find a lot more info. I will continue to try & find what I can for you. but have a look too.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=pa40AAAAIBAJ&sjid=2oQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6341%2C2331505
This is almost as far back as we can go in terms of Montreal Gazette newspapers,
I have had information on the duel ,but it was years ago,& I'm not sure we ever posted it on this site,I would think that if it was Montreal / Verdun, related ,then I would have posted it. If I find it again I will post it here.
Cheers !! HF&RV Good Luck with your browsing & scrolling......

Guy Billard said...

Ken,
The duel you mention was the last one held in canada. It was held in May 1838 between the victim Major Henry Warde of the Royal regiment and Robert Sweeney, two members of prominent Montreal families and over what else, a women. History books mention that the duel was held near a race track wich was situated west of Church avenue. The wounded Warde was brought to the "Pavillion" wich was situated on Lower Lachine Road (LaSalle Blvd) where he died and where there is a car wash today to the left of the gas station which is at the corner of Church.
The Pavilion is where the founding of Verdun was held in 1876 and was demolished in 1954.
Here are photos of the Pavilion and the corner of Church and LaSalle today;





Ken: I have added a map that shows the approximate area where the horse race track was situated. This race track wich was no longer in operation and is not to abe confused with the Queen's Parck velodrome wich was for bicycle racing and was near LaSalle blvd, The horse race track preceded the velodrome.
Guy

Les F said...

Ok I have found some info (very little) a brief statement #31 on a list
can be read here at this link: http://books.google.ca/books?id=zJ0-AAAAYAAJ&dq=Major%20Henry%20Warde%20of%20the%20Royal%20regiment%20and%20Robert%20Sweeney&pg=PR19#v=onepage&q&f=false
HF&RV

Les F said...

So from what I can find this was the 'last fatal' duel,btwn: warde & sweeney,.Seems there conitnued to be the occasional duel,but none listed as fatal. I guess they were not that good of shots....(or they played by the rules...........lol) HF&RV

Ken McLaughlin said...

There is a write up in the Gazette archives that describes the duel in some detail but I have to find the link. I think it might have been an old Andrew Edgar Collard article. What I found fascinating was that Warde had been receiving "love letters" and got the idea that it was Sweeney's wife that was sending them. Warde and Sweeney were good friends. Warde had someone follow the kid that had been delivering the letters and they found out that the kid went back to Sweeney's place. Warde was then sold even though the kid actually lived near Sweeney and it was not unusual for him to stop at that house. So Warde wrote a love letter of his own and had it delivered to Sweeney's house. She received the letter while guests were there and asked Sweeney to read it. Sweeney, probably baffled by the letter, nonetheless agreed that a duel must be fought on principle. Sweeney would "win" the duel but died a few years later apparently never recovering from the bizarre circumstances that forced him to kill his friend. Sweeney's wife, however, ending up marrying into money, was very well politically connected, considered a shrewd player in political scenes and ended up living in England basically hanging out in Royal and aristocratic circles. I seem to recall that she lived for awhile in a house that was well known in Montreal somewhere in the Golden Square Mile, such as on Drummond above Sherbrooke. And that is basically the story off the top of my head.

Ken McLaughlin

Guy Billard said...

Les,
That should be 1838 and not 1938. I have corrected my post. Sorry about that and thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Guy

Les F said...

Here's what I see on Andrew Edgar Collard. oddly enough i don't remember this writer & it seems he wrote a lot of interesting articles : here is a link to many of his stories....in the gazette
http://news.google.com/archivesearch?as_q=Andrew+Edgar+Collard&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Search+Archives&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&ned=ca&as_user_ldate=&as_user_hdate=&lr=&as_src=montreal+gazette+-+google+news+archive&as_price=p0&as_scoring=a
I can remember reading the Montreal Star quite often,(as it was my job to pick up the Final or Postscript Edition) at the 'Lucky Spot' store near Church Av & Wellington....just before the pharmacy on the corner.I also remember doing the Current Events Quiz that came once a week in the star.......Good thing someone taught us to read,& they did it early in our lives,because attendance was not a strong point (for you either Mr KCM.........hahahahaha HF&RV
I will read a bunch of Collards stuff...& get caught up to date.

Guy Billard said...

I have the story of the duel in french and I will translate and post it. My source says that it was the last duel to be held in Canada in 1838 in what was to become Verdun in 1876.
Guy

Les F said...

YIKES !! How did his name escape my memory.....56 years
The first issue of his column "All Our Yesterdays" appeared in The Montreal Gazette on August 14, 1944 and appeared every weekend for 56 years. Each week the column addressed an episode or aspect of Montreal history. The column was reportedly read by such luminaries as Pierre Trudeau and Robertson Davies. His columns were compiled in several books which were illustrated by his longtime collaborator John Collins.

He was born in 1911 & left in 2000,.that's a good stretch. HF&RV

Les F said...

here is the photo from BNQ archives of Queens Park in Verdun ( I know we've seen this before but here's the site :
http://bibnum2.banq.qc.ca/bna/illustrations/htm/i4582.htm
For those of you living near a library in Montreal, you could easily look this info up, where there is a little ,there usually is a lot of info..........


Cheers !! Have Fun & Remember Verdun

Guy Billard said...

Les,
I am aware of these photos and we have copies in our archives (SHGV). As a matter of fact we have the original book in wich these photos are shown, LE MONDE ILLUSTRÉ. Thanks for your interest and all the information on bicycling you have posted. Verdun was at the forefront of bicycling as the bicycle clubs would make tours from Montreal by taking Upper Lachine road to Lachine and would return by taking Lower Lachine Road (LaSalle Blvd).
Guy

Les F said...

Just a few weeks ago we posted this bicycle map for Montreal, seems appropriate to add it here too.
Long Before the Bixi Bike ,Montreal Was into Bicycles Jan 4, '11 1:35 PM
by Les for everyone

Checkout this map published in the late (dig this) 1800's ...........hahahahah Montreal had a dedicated bicyle route & even went to the extent of publishing a Map for Cyclists


So you see, there really "is" Nothing New Under the Sun...............click to enlarge the map:
Tags: montreal
Prev: Mont Royal in the Winter (an escape from the city all year long)
Next: CNR Picturing the Past ,a little history

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2 CommentsChronological Reverse Threaded
delete replyshgverdun wrote on Jan 4
Les,
Thanks for the 1897 Montreal map. I am making a copy for our archives.
Guy
edit delete replylesf wrote on Jan 4
Your Welcome Guy,glad you liked it & can share it with SHGV,,,,,,,,,, Cheers !! HF&RV
I thought it was neat that over One Hundred Years Ago,Montreal actually had Bicycle Routes & Maps to go along with it

Ken McLaughlin said...

I like that map so much I posted it on the blog! Along with kudos to my old childhood buddy, Les!
http://neath.wordpress.com

Ken M

Les F said...

I've always liked that blog, you've got a couple of them don't you Ken.? IIn my searches over the years I have come across a lot of Montreal related articles ,story's.blogs etc etc...I wonder what inspired our interest in so many subjects ? it wasn't school.........hahahahaha Maybe the poolhall ?
Glad you got some use out of the map, can you imagine if the people 100 years ago ,could see the city as we do now? (Hmmmmm maybe they can,maybe we are them....lol)
Cheers !! HF&RV

Ken McLaughlin said...

Well, we busted out of class
Had to get away from those fools
We learned more from a 3-minute record, baby
Than we ever learned in school
Tonight I hear the neighborhood drummer sound
I can feel my heart begin to pound
You say you're tired and you just want to close your eyes
And follow your dreams down

Chorus:
Well, we made a promise we swore we'd always remember
No retreat, baby, no surrender
Like soldiers in the winter's night
With a vow to defend
No retreat, baby, no surrender

No Surrender - Bruce Springsteen

Kind of sums it all up for me, lol.

Ken M

Les F said...

A live video of No Surrender, courtesy of Bruce Springstein.via Youtube

-----------------------------HF&RV

Les F said...

Since this thread is into the bike thing , I am reposting this copy from last August re: the Bixi Rental Bike coming to Verdun as well as the rest of the island of Montreal,.when we were kids we rented bikes from Mr Bayard on Galt Avenue almost directly across fromt he VerdunCity Maintenance Yards..Mr Bayard would rent bikes to us kids by the hour & man we went everywhere you could think of with those things.
- Verdun too ? You bet your Sweet Bixi Aug 2, '10 1:17 PM
by Les for everyone

With all the great work done around the island of Montreal beautifying the waterfront with pathways etc etc , it's now getting the Bixi renta bike system too...Imagine jumping on a bike in Lasalle and cruising along the waterfront through Verdun all the way to the Old Port & more.....Sounds like a great idea. Mr Bayard on Galt Avenue would be proud,(he was the fellow we all rented bikes from as kids......I wonder what ever happened to him & his little business.....Anyway if you like bikes ,rent one & take some pics along your travels & maybe share them with us here.

MONTREAL - Twenty Bixi bicycle stations are being opened in four Montreal boroughs on an experimental basis to determine whether they are as popular there as in the central city.

The first 10 sites were launched Monday in LaSalle and St. Laurent, with five stations in each borough, six bikes per station. In two weeks, another 10 stations will be operating in Verdun and Ahuntsic-Cartierville.

The new stations add 120 bikes to the fleet of about 5,000 now in the Bixi system. Situated near major bus and métro stations, officials will monitor whether the Bixi catches on for short jaunts.

The Bixi system now has about 28,000 members and officials consider it a great success in terms of rentals.

----------------------HF&RV------------------------

pauline garneau said...

Hi Guy .....Just maybe you haven't seen this one on Queens Park


http://sportetsociete.blogspot.com/2010/07/grande-rencontre-cycliste.html

pauline garneau said...

a little cycling history back in the day.

http://protourquebecmontreal.com/news/14/104/Retour-vers-le-passe/

Guy Billard said...

Yes I did see this article. Although it ads interesting information, it does not answer the main question, where exactly was it situated ?. Some say near Verdun ave but I say near LaSalle boulevard as shown on my illustration. If you do find any new information, please let me know.
Guy

Guy Billard said...

I also saw this information. Thanks for the information and if you find something new, please let me know.
Guy

pauline garneau said...

The Queen's Park was built in 1898 "in Verdun, near the river, right down the path of Lachine (4), by businessmen of this city whose UH Dandurand, stockbroker and real estate particularly enterprising (5). The velodrome track is wood, with curves that "have up to eight feet of bank, its width is twenty-eight feet. Nat Butler, the American champion, who has tested "confessed he had not met a single track as perfect as the Queen's Park "(6).

This article says near the river, right down the path of Lachine . To me that would be Lasalle Blvd. Is it possible the other streets weren't named yet?

Guy Billard said...

Pauline,
I am looking for more detailed information regarding the exact location of the velodeome such as an official period (1899) map or a bird's eye view such as mine or a detailed description showing the stand, race track, entrance and other structures that comprised the whole complex. There may even have been some films taken (8mm - 16 mm ?).
Guy

Les F said...

Guy I have searched what I can of the archives in the BNQ, but perhaps you would have more success,by actually going into the library itself & have a more hands on shot at rifling through their collections. Most libraries have collections that just are not available online. It is just a thought but worth a trip through,if even just to see that new building,pretty impressive looking.
http://www.banq.qc.ca/accueil/index.html?language_id=1

Archives centres
Opening hours and contact information
The archives branch of Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec (BAnQ) offers its services throughout Québec via a network of nine regional centres. This regional presence enables researchers from everywhere in Québec, or from beyond its borders, to discover and, in turn, present to others, the manifold pieces of our historical tapestry. The archival fonds and collections at the centres are accessible to the public, except for certain confidential documents.

Centre d’archives de Montréal
Édifice Gilles-Hocquart
535, avenue Viger Est
Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3
Tel.: 514 873-1100, option 4
Fax: 514 873-2980
E-mail: anq.montreal@banq.qc.ca

Hours

•Tuesday: 9 am to 5 pm
•Wednesday: 9 am to 9 pm
•Thursday: 9 am to 9 pm
•Friday: 9 am to 9 pm
•Saturday: 9 am to 5 pm
•Sunday: 9 am to 5 pm
•Iconographic, cartographic, architectural, and audiovisual archives
◦By appointment, Tuesday through Friday: 10 am to 12 noon, and 1 pm to 5 pm
Email : icono.cam@banq.qc.ca
Tel: 514 873-1101 ext. 6270
Good Luck on the search,I'm sure you will no doubt come across a lot of interesting Verdun info,aside from the Queens Park too.
-Cheers !! HF&RV

Les F said...

A grand pedestrian promenade behind the front facade of the new Grand Bibliothèque of the Bibliothèque et Archives Nationales de Québec (BAnQ) links directly with the Metro, creating a 24-hour public thoroughfare tied into the fabric of the local community. The new library, in Montréal's Latin Quarter, houses two major collections: a large national reference library and an extensive lending library. But the 355,000-square-foot (33,000-square-meter), five-story glazed structure serves more than books
The Metro has a stop right at the BNQ: 475 De Maisoneuve,......... HF&RV

Les F said...

The likelihood of finding an aerial shot of Queen's Park in Verdun,would be almost impossible,as the first flight in Canada wasn't until 1909 & that was in Nova Scotia (I think), but if the Church at Wellington & Church Avenue was around then ,it's possible someone may have taken a photograph of te surrounding area from one of the steeples? or from the roof of the Church at Gordon & Wellington I suppose....I wonder how long the park was inbusiness for,?
-----------HF&RV

Les F said...

Guy click on this link to an old Montreal Gazette, I found mention of a Queen's Park Celebration tickets for a seat in the Gran Stand .25 cents
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=aYU1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=wX4FAAAAIBAJ&pg=4095%2C277793
you will have to use the magnifyer ,This is the only thing I have found so far, & I've glanced at a lot of papers ....lol
I will alert you if I find something more detailed,this ad doesn't even say where it is,so I imagine 'everyone' knew exactly where this park was???
The strange thing is (scroll down) it reads Independance Day Celebration July 4th this is in the Montreal Gazette July 4th 1900 ------Cheers HF&RV

Guy Billard said...

Les,
I have been at the BANQ and the Viger street archives and with little luck. Thanks for the fuggestions.
Guy

Guy Billard said...

Les,
Did you know that many citizens referred to Verdun as Queen's Park at that period ?
Guy

Guy Billard said...

Les,
This was after the World's meet and notice that they had fireworks andAmerican Biascope, wich must have been some king of on screen projection with still photos, I am only guessing. This entertainment must have been fun for Verdunites at the beginning of the 20th century near the waterfront..
Guy

Les F said...

Les,
Did you know that many citizens referred to Verdun as Queen's Park at that period ?
Guy
No I didn't know that Guy, that makes it more understandable that there is no mention of Verdun in the ad. I tried to find a Gazette paper,for the exact year,unfortunately they do not list that particular year.That's why I looked in before & after papers. I will try one of the French papers from that period,maybe I will have some success there. Thanks for the info. Cheers !! HF&RV

Guy Billard said...

Les,
Queen's Park was an unofficial way of naming Verdun.
Guy

Les F said...


Excentrique Ucal-Henri Dandurand? Quelques mois après avoir conduit la première voiture à Montréal, voilà qu'il invite la population à venir voir le plus petit train à vapeur au monde. Non pas un train pour la maison, mais un train dans lequel on peut prendre place et qui est une reproduction fidèle d'une locomotive de passagers de grandeur moyenne. La photographie nous le montre qui circule sur le terrain d'une ancienne propriété familiale, Queen's Park. Sur la carte au verso de la photo, on peut lire qu'U.-H. Dandurand en est le propriétaire et le directeur et que son fils aîné, Henri-Ucal, sept ans, en est le chef-conducteur. Le train circule tous les jours à Queen's Park de 13 h à 23 h.


Guy this name Dandurand is familiar,but what is the Queens PArk they speak of here ? HF&RV

Guy Billard said...

I am aware of all those photos and articles. However, they do not mention the exact location of the velodrome, the stadium and other buildings that comprised the complex. I have searched all over town without luck. I am convinced that new information is available somewhere but where ? One of my theories is that it was situated as shown on my illustration but I would like to have confirmation of this. I had an interwiew with the archivist at the City of Verdun but the maps, documents, photos etc. of 1899 where not kept by the city. I am still searching. One place where these documents might be available is the descendents of Ucal-Henri Dandurad the creator of the velodrome wich I will explore. Thanks all you guys for your help.

Guy

Ken McLaughlin said...

Just a wild thought but do you think that there might be anything in the Notman archives - they photographed about every inch of Montreal in the 19th century it seems. Don't know much about them myself, but I think you have to go through the McCord Museum to get at them, but don't quote me on that (wink).

Ken M

Les F said...

Most of Notman's stuff has been archived in the BNQ too...... Oddly enough or maybe not so odd, but while scanning all those Gazettes last week ,looking for info, I came across many adverts by Notman for his photography business.
You might even be able to chase down some info through McGill's site or maybe even Concordia,because as you mention Notman photogrpahed a lot of Montreal
HF&RV

pauline garneau said...

Hi Guy - a clue as to where Queen"s Park was.


http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~qcmtl-w/CentenaryMeth.htm

Guy Billard said...

Here is my album no. 31 on Queen's Park wich contains 16 photos so far. I have been at the McCord Museum but did not visit the Notman collection. I will have to go back to see more. I was also at the Concordia University but they did not seem to have anything on Queen's Park. However it would require more exploring.
Thanks guys for your suggestions.
Guy

Les F said...

Hi Pauline ,that is somewhat confusing,are they refering to the Churck at Fortuen & Wellington ,eventually becomming Verdun United ,or ? Funny I have been all thorugh this site many times,and never really paid attention to the Queens Park refernce. Perhaps as Guy mentioned the other day, that Verdun was reffered to as Queens Park ? Maybe the whole region below Ville Marie (Montreal proper) was called that.although I have never heard that before.
Cheers !! HF&RV